Baby color ID help needed

I already posted this on FMB, but I always like to hear he views of as many breeders as possible, so I figured it couldn't hurt to post it here too.

I've got a few new babies whose colors make me scratch my head and I was hoping you guys might be able to help me out.

First up, a chubby boy whose mom is a Blue-Point Siamese Fox(from Splash Fox lines) and his dad is a Standard Blue(from Black and Blue lines):





He's definitely Fox and I was thinking he might be a Blue-Point Siamese, but the orangish coloring is confusing me. :?

Next up is a litter of what look to be Merles, but I'm pretty sure they're not. Their mom has odd markings that make her look kinda like Merle as well, but she's not merle(I don't think...). She was sold to me as a "Siamese Splash Fox Angora" and the mice in her lines are 90% Siamese Splash Foxes as well. The dad is also a Siamese Splash Fox Angora from the same line.

Here's a picture of the mom:


And here are the babies:







They're a bit scrawny due to the fact that their mom accidentally got preggers again right after she gave birth and these little guys got a bit buried under the bigger ones. They're catching up now that the bigger babies are out of the way.

Any ideas?

Oh yeah, some of the babies in the "Merle-ish" litter are Rexes. That can mess will coloring a bit sometimes, so I figured it was worth mentioning.

The first baby looks like a blue agouti to me.
I haven't seen one so young before since I don't
breed for them, so I might be mistaken.
But with my black selfs I can always tell who will be self and who will be
agouti from that orangish cast. But then again agouti is dominant so one of the parents would have to be also, and you didn't say they were...huh. I'm stumped.

The others ook like merles to me (but again, I'm not 100% sure)

The first looks like a blue recessive yellow.

The doe looks like a combination of splashed and merle, you can see some roaning through the black splashes. The pups look like a combination of splashed, merle and splashed merle.

Blue recessive yellow? Thought ry just came in yellow.

I think he looks like a blue agouti.

And the others- merle and roams.

a/a d/d e/e

I replied on FMB...Cindy and Ann could be right about that first pup...it seems a little dark, but it could totally be a "blue recessive yellow." e/e is definitely affected by the other genes present, and in the case of d/d and e/e together on the same mouse you get blue sootiness where there would otherwise be black sootiness, and the yellow/red is diluted to a creamy color.

Yes, the first baby looks Blue-based RY, a/a d/d e/e. I used to get them when I started with Blue 2 years ago, and they can vary in the level of their sootiness. With the right shade, I kinda like them even though I don't really like RY much.

Ive never heard/seen blue-based RY until now,lol. But it makes sense.

In the last litter I see merles, splashed and I think splashed merles. Lovely litter!

You learn something new every day!

Well, that stinks that they're Merle because I was really wanting to use these babies for breeding Tri-Color. :/ Some of them have such nice, solid patches and the other Tri-Colors I get look too "splashy". I've heard Merle looks back on Tri, but perhaps I'll give it a go just for fun to see what comes of it and, hopefully, end up with some NON-Merle Tri in the process as well.

I never thought of the babies possibly being Blue-based RY, but that definitely makes sense!

Thanks so much you guys! Ya'll are awesome.

I'll be sure to post updated pics as they get bigger.

Cant wait for pics when they are older! Its an interesting litter!

WindyHill wrote:Cant wait for pics when they are older! Its an interesting litter!

I second this! Very interesting!

I've never heard of blue RY before but I like it

This was a "blue yellow" I had

2010-12-07 Mice 007 by CSBeck, on Flickr

Stina, I can't see your pic. I think maybe it's my computer because I couldn't see a pic that Melissa posted in a different thread either.

hmm...you should be able to at least click on the link that says "2010-12-07 Mice 007"

I'm now up to 3 of the mystery(RY? Blue Agouti?) boys.

Here are pics of 2 of them:

The original boy





One of the other boys





The "merle" babies' colors are all jumbled now that they're curly. I'll have to take new pics once they've poofed.

Wow, is that interesting!

Very interresting. I do see ry base in him. They are so pretty!

Some kind of c-diluted umbrous?

Looks like a c-diluted umbrous agouti to me. I have one very similar. It grew up and is much more obviously marked as an adult.

Umbrous agouti--yeah, I just learned this year that umbrous shows only on A/a, so umbrous mice are automatically agouti, so thanks for including that, Rhasputin, so we could all understand that.