Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

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Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:53 pm

I have one of the first babies born from the mosue we got at a really awful pet store (we didn't know any of the stories until after we got her) who looks like he's in a lot of pain.

I noticed 2 days ago he wasn't eating the same and was sleeping more. He is one ofthe active boys we have. Then yesturday morning, he was very hard to wake up for his cage cleaning. Even when I tuched him on his head, he looked but didn't get up and went back to sleeping. Finally when he did get up I picked him up to check on him, it even looked painful for me to do this. It almost remind me of how a dog would be if his hind legs had issue's or even hit by a car since I have seen that. So I put him in a smaller cage, so he didn't have to move very much.

As of now, his snout seems much smaller and longer, his ears are sitting really back far. He looks like he is shrinking, I know from having hamsters as a kid this happened right before they died. He seems to be eating and drinking a little, but nothing like he was. His not active at all. While it looks hard for him to breath, it don't sound labored.

I'm just wondering if it would be best to put him down, because he looks to me like his suggering and I do not want that.

And if you think he should, what would be the best way.

Thanks


Last edited by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by kawmice on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:56 pm

I would put him down unfortunately. It does sound like he is in pain and suffering. I am sorry. Sad
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by kawmice on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:57 pm

I would use CD.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:20 pm

I had already sent the hubby out to get the stuff we needed and he's down stairs doing it now. I could't even be in the same room :-(
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:51 pm

OK we followed intructions from
http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/

And after 30 min of leaving him in the container, he's STILL alive :-(

And h seem to be more active :-( I've also think that I found the problem, I had cleaned his cage out o once it didn't work, I put him back in the empty cage. Right away he spread his legs and started licking his back area and when I thought was poop on him the other day seems to be a growth. It has no hair and look raw. ve never seen a mouse penis, could this be it? But it does look too far back towards his belly to me.

So now what?

I'm off to get a tall drink I think! Talk about stressful :-(
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:29 pm

OK I got Logan to help me get a picture of pinky, so here i what I was talking about. Any idea's of wht this could be?

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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by GypsyTails on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:00 pm

Looks like a prolapsed penis. You can lube it up a bit with KY jelly or Astroglide and see if it slips back in, but if not it can be a painful problem and euthanasia is still best. I've seen vets try and tack them in on rats, but I haven't seen it tried on a mouse. Poor little guy.

Do you have multiple sizes of Kritter Keepers, a funnel and plastic wrap? I've found that it can take more than 1.2 Tbsp of baking soda and a cup or two of vinegar sometimes.

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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Frizzle on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:30 pm

If you get it back in, idk how breeding affects the chances that will will relapse.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:42 pm

GypsyTails wrote:Looks like a prolapsed penis. You can lube it up a bit with KY jelly or Astroglide and see if it slips back in, but if not it can be a painful problem and euthanasia is still best. I've seen vets try and tack them in on rats, but I haven't seen it tried on a mouse. Poor little guy.

Do you have multiple sizes of Kritter Keepers, a funnel and plastic wrap? I've found that it can take more than 1.2 Tbsp of baking soda and a cup or two of vinegar sometimes.

Thks a lot! I will try this tomorrow and I hope it will fix itself! But I don't want to wait too long so how long would you suggest to wait?

I do have 2 different size cages and your idea sounds good. I wasn't there when husband did it, but I wonder about him getng the air out BEFORE he started. I used 3 tablespoons of baking soda and then 2 cups of vinegar for today. The husband wants to put him in the freezer, so we fought about that today :-/
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:46 pm

Frizzle wrote:If you get it back in, idk how breeding affects the chances that will will relapse.

This isn't even a concern at all. Like I said, he came from a HORRIBLE pet store and I have never had any plans to breed him anyway because of this. Not to mention he's the third mouse from this litter to have issues.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Stina on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:17 pm

I wouldn't wait at all.....the longer it is out, the drier it will become and it could even become necrotic or infected. I would euthanize or work on lubricating it right away...that is very painful for them.

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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Love2read on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:11 pm

As a side note, make sure that you get the ORIGINAL KY and not the tingling kind. It's common sense, I know, but I figured it was worth mentioning. Wink
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by kawmice on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:25 pm

wow.... poor guy. I would have told you the exact same thing Stina said. The longer it is out - the greater the chance of it getting necrotic and then any chance of saving him will be crushed.

Euthanizing an adult mouse in the freezer is not humane. Sad Tell your husband he will suffer even more and die and a very slow and painful death. I am very sorry to hear that your first attempt at euthanizing failed.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:28 pm

Thanks ladies, I'm going to wait until the morning and then attempt to put him down. I have NO IDEA what we did wrong. Anyone have any ideas or could walk me thru how you do it? It would be GREATLY appreciated!

I told him I would NOT let him do that, ticked me off! He thinks the co2 was bad!
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Stina on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:09 am

Oh geez I missed the freezer comment!...Freezing is a horrible way to die!

With the CO2 they should fall asleep fairly quickly....then you want to just keep adding vinegar/baking soda until you can see that they've stopped breathing...then you leave them in there (without ever opening the container) for a while just to make sure. As long as they are still breeding, you need to keep adding CO2. I've had a couple mice here and there that took much longer to euth than others...so you really do have to sit and monitor.

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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:31 am

Stina wrote:Oh geez I missed the freezer comment!...Freezing is a horrible way to die!

With the CO2 they should fall asleep fairly quickly....then you want to just keep adding vinegar/baking soda until you can see that they've stopped breathing...then you leave them in there (without ever opening the container) for a while just to make sure. As long as they are still breeding, you need to keep adding CO2. I've had a couple mice here and there that took much longer to euth than others...so you really do have to sit and monitor.

I think so too Stina, for what ever reason he is thinking the oppisite and the CO2 is going to be worse. It ws pretty strange, even his eyes seem to pop out a little more after. Little bugger, not that I want to do this, but I nearly lost it when my on came and told me he was still alive and my husband wanted to know what I wanted to do. We have 8 boys and he's one of the two that are my favorite, but his whole litter had issue's with health. We have just never had to put them down. I just hope it works tomorrow, or I'm going to be a wreak!

On a side note, do you need to take out all the air from the container the mouse is in? I think I remember reading something about that, but wasnt sure if it was that or the bag.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Stina on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:37 am

Freezing is known to be incredibly painful...and slow. Ask him if he's ever had frost bite...and if so, how it felt. Minor frostbite is nothing compared to actually freezing to death.

With CO2, they may have a moment or two of agitation, but as long as you keep the CO2 running, once they are out they stay out till they are gone and they aren't really feeling anything. Asphyxiation by lack of oxygen is painless...it is why people can die in their sleep of monodioxide, or in their car of CO2 in a sealed garage if the car is kept running....

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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Mrs. Beach on Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:20 am

If your mouse didn't die in the CO2 chamber it's probably because too much oxygen got in. Not airtight? Leak somewhere in a connection? Check that.

There is a "mouse grimace scale" of mice's facial expressions that shows when they are in pain. Check this out:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/mouse-pain-expression/
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Frizzle on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:01 am

LittleSniffs wrote:
Frizzle wrote:If you get it back in, idk how breeding affects the chances that will will relapse.

This isn't even a concern at all. Like I said, he came from a HORRIBLE pet store and I have never had any plans to breed him anyway because of this. Not to mention he's the third mouse from this litter to have issues.

I just thought it worth mentioning in case it was something you were considering; it's good to hear you're a responsible breeder. What were the other health problems out of curiosity?
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Mrs. Beach wrote:If your mouse didn't die in the CO2 chamber it's probably because too much oxygen got in. Not airtight? Leak somewhere in a connection? Check that.

There is a "mouse grimace scale" of mice's facial expressions that shows when they are in pain. Check this out:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/mouse-pain-expression/

No, hubby thinks it was too much oxygen like you said now. He thinks if we put a hole at the top to vent it out it will work. We used a butter container, we have SO many and all different sizes but we used the biggest one. And he got a better hose last n ight from work. So we are trying again today when I get home for work. He did some research last night so I hope it works today, I don't like seeing him suffer. make me upset every tme I even look at the cage. He seems to have settled down more then he was yesturday, he's made himself a bed right near the water bottle and food.

That is the page I used to figure out if he was in pain and that page is what made me worry. It's SO helpful. He has 3 out of the one listed.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:28 pm

Frizzle wrote:
LittleSniffs wrote:
Frizzle wrote:If you get it back in, idk how breeding affects the chances that will will relapse.

This isn't even a concern at all. Like I said, he came from a HORRIBLE pet store and I have never had any plans to breed him anyway because of this. Not to mention he's the third mouse from this litter to have issues.

I just thought it worth mentioning in case it was something you were considering; it's good to hear you're a responsible breeder. What were the other health problems out of curiosity?

We got them from a pet store in Rising Sun MD. It was before we knew there was breeders and it was really a spur of the moment thing. It looked like they just let them ALL in the same cage, even tho they said bucks were not in the cage I think they were, there was atleast 2 does that was ready to have babies any day. But no one else near us had mice, we checked so we went ahead and got Bandit. She had babies 2 weeks later, 5 lived but we are unsure how many she had because at first it was around 8 or so then they were gone. They all seem to have lumps. One pinkie died when it was about 3 weeks, when I checked it over there was a lump on it. Spot also had a lump but it seems to go away altho you can still tell where it was because the hair is missing a little. The other male that my sons friend took also had a lump that went away. Both of these mice are fine now besides both being over weight. We have one doe from the litter that seems to be the only one to not have any issues now.

After we had the surprise litter I did some looking around online and they had been in trouble a few years back for how they care for animals. So needless to say we haven't been back.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by Bannister on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:30 pm

Dude, if you haven't already put him down, what about taking him to the vet to get it put back in?? Trying to put the penis back in yourself isn't necessarily going to work especially if it's been out for a while, but a vet can do it. My mouse just had a penis prolapse, I took him to the vet. She had never dealt with a mouse prolapse, only with prolapse in puppies. She anesthetised him, lubed it and used a tiny forceps to pull the skin back over it. Bam, penis where it should be.

Apparently prolapse can be a reoccuring problem where it keeps coming out and you have to put the mouse down because it keeps coming out, but you CAN get it put back in and give the mouse a chance.

My mouse is up to a day and a half with no reoccurence and his penis looked like your guys penis. The vet can also supply pain relief, antibiotics if needed, etc. Seriously. I read it mentioned on another forum that their vet said there is also the option to amputate the penis if it's gone all blue and horrible. So even if it's really bad there may be options.

Of course you know your guy best, if he's been too beaten up by this already and the best thing for him is euthanasia, then cool.

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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Tue May 01, 2012 4:15 pm

We finally did things right and Pinky was put down about 2 this afternoon.

I really hope I don't ever have to do this again, it's a horrible feeling once you get attached to them.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by kawmice on Wed May 02, 2012 3:54 am

I am sorry Cheri. I feel you did the right thing.It can be hard, I know, but at least he is not in any pain.

Bannister - Putting a mouse through that kind of surgery would most likely result in a dead mouse anyway. The surgery is called a PU, for short. I have done this in cats and it is a very bloody and invasive surgery. The genatal area is very delicate and vascular. The mouse would most likely bleed out. I have never heard of it being done on any smaller animals. It is more commonly done in cats and the ocasional dog.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

Post by LittleSniffs on Wed May 02, 2012 7:23 am

Thanks hon, I know I did the right thing.

I didn't see the other post from Bannister, but I would never do anything like that. For what Kawmice said and just for the simple fact, if it happens again why would you want to put your mouse thru that.
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Re: Mouse looks like in pain (mass w/ picture)

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