Critique wanted!

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Critique wanted!

Post by Love2read on Tue May 08, 2012 7:36 pm

I was hoping you guys might be able to critique one of my baby boys. He's a Blue-Based RY, so I'm not concerned about his color, I'm mainly just wanting to know what you thing of his body type and where I can improve.

Here are a ton of pics of him:











I could only get one straight-on pic of his face and, of course, he was holding his ears funny and it makes them look minuscule. No He also kept insisting on tucking in his tail every time I took a birds-eye view pic of him. *head smack* Honestly, his tail set is much better then it looks in the pics, lol.
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Stina on Tue May 08, 2012 9:08 pm

He's not too bad. Ears should be larger, tail set longer, and maybe slightly thicker tail. He's also a little on the "stout" side...he could be racier. His coat also needs improvement...looks uneven and there is an abundance of guard hairs. His head is actually quite good...broad skull, broad snout, short, convex profile, big eyes....muzzle isn't pinched...very nice Happy

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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by kawmice on Tue May 08, 2012 9:30 pm

I like his face. Very rounded and as Stina stated- not pinched. His ear set looks good but they could be bigger overall. His tail set is not bad but could be better. Body type is not bad but could be improved on. And his tail could be thicker. I do really like him though. His type is not bad at all. Good job. Happy
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Rhasputin on Tue May 08, 2012 10:30 pm

I'm going to agree that the face is his best aspect.

His tail set may develop more as he ages, but when/if you pair him, it needs to be longer, so keep that in mind. I can't tell his tail length, but to check, you can bend the tail over the body. It should at the very least reach the tip of his nose when held there loosely, and it's better if it passes the nose.

I also see a lot of guard hairs sticking out, but that will probably improve, if only slightly, with age.

His ears, I would prefer them angled a little differently, and larger and thinner with more curl.

He has a very handsome face with a nice downward angle.

Pinched muzzles are hard to get away from, his is certainly not pinched. If you're wondering what that means, it refers to the sides of the mouse's face being straight, and not being 'pinched' inwards anywhere. It often happens around the whisker beds. The nose also should not stick out from the face, but be flush with the bottom jaw and lips, on your mouse, there is no pinching or problems with the nose sticking out.
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Stina on Tue May 08, 2012 10:38 pm

What do you mean by curl to the ear?....To me his ears have a very nice shape and the thickness is good, a good ear should be fairly thick. The only issue I have with the ears is that they are too small....that is the only "fault" I see, at least according to my interpretation of most clubs' standards.

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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Rhasputin on Tue May 08, 2012 10:59 pm

I mean they should flick back more. I think in the standards we wrote fro the UMC we described them as having a shape similar to a cala lily. You can see in the top-down view photo that his ears curl back a bit, but I would like to see more. They should also be larger, thinner, and smoother, but they will probably improve as he grows into them.

References

AFRMA - The ears should be large and thin, almost transparent, carried high on the head and facing forward, giving the expression of alert inquisitiveness. They should stand erect and be free from folds, creases, or nicks. There should be plenty of width between the ears, but not so much as to lose the proper expression.

ECMA - The ears should be as large as possible and smooth, with rounded edges and no creases. The ears should also be prominent, thin, translucent and clean. They should be expressive and erect with plenty of width between them but not set too high on the head. Rips, holes or any other natural or unnatural defect of the ears to be faulted.

NMC - The ears large and tulip shaped, free from creases, carried erect with plenty of width between them

UMC - Ears should sit at an angle (compared to a clock) between 2 and 10, and 3 and 9. Ears should extend out from the head, and curl back in the shape of a calla lilly. Ears should be smooth and wrinkle free, with no notches, holes, scars, or missing flesh. Tips should be rounded and smooth.


Last edited by Rhasputin on Tue May 08, 2012 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added in references)
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Rhasputin on Tue May 08, 2012 11:06 pm

Although, I am judging based on pictures, and I'm sure that in person the mouse would look very much different. Especially when, looking back, I would judge the ears completely differently from one photo, to the next.
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Love2read on Tue May 08, 2012 11:08 pm

A HUGE thank you to all 3 of you! I greatly appreciate all of the awesome input!

I understand what you mean about the curl Rhasputin. I'm hoping his ears will get a little bit bigger as he gets older, but if not I'll just make sure to pair him with whichever does of mine have the biggest ears. Wink

I really wish he was a standardized color because I'd love to show him if I ever get the opportunity, but wouldn't know what to show him as. :/ It'd be really nice to have an OFFICIAL "show" mouse. Woot!

Of all of my new baby boys he was the one with the best type, according to my untrained eyes.

Rhasputin, I wanted to add an extra "Thank you" for going into such detail about the nose and ears. I keep reading about "pinched noses" and didn't really understand what people were talking about. I also didn't know about the nose needing to be flush with the jaw/lips.

Now I've got a much better idea of what the "ideal" mouse should look like. Happy I'm going to go look at all of my babies again now that I know more exactly what to look for and will choose the "keepers" accordingly. Woot!
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Rhasputin on Tue May 08, 2012 11:12 pm

You're very welcome!

We're going to eventually standardize 'blue fawn', we just need to figure out what to judge them on first!

dance
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Love2read on Tue May 08, 2012 11:33 pm

Eep! I'm so excited! Please keep me posted on what happens with it!

I ended up with multiple "Blue Fawn" bucks in my recent litters and have no idea what to do with the little stinkers. tongue

How would my boy fit into the color standards for Blue Fawn? Should he be lighter/darker or is his coloring good? What are you guys aiming at as far as how the color should look?
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Stina on Tue May 08, 2012 11:36 pm

So far as I'm aware, I'm the only one yet who proposed a blue fawn standard and that was to the ECMA....the mouse I had at that time was young though, and her coloring changed a lot as she matured (as will your boy's). I think there would need to be a good number of adults examined before deciding on a realistic standard for it.

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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Rhasputin on Tue May 08, 2012 11:43 pm

Yes indeedy. Since the colours change so drastically from kitten to adult, it's going to be difficult to figure out what to do.

The same can be said, in my experience, for blue agouti. The colours change really drastically as the mouse ages.
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Love2read on Wed May 09, 2012 1:18 am

Stina, do you have any pics of your Blue Fawn as an adult?
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by m137b on Wed May 09, 2012 2:45 am

He's a nice looking buck overall.

Without reading the other critiques first I found his head to be a bit short, and lacking in fullness to the lower muzzle, though he does have very good fullness to the cheeks and good width between the eyes and ears . The ears are set well apart but seem to be carried a bit far back on the head, which is why he carries them back at times instead of forward[look at the distance between the eye and the ear, the shorter this distance the more forward the ear is carried and the more erect the ear is held].
The ears are a nice shape, clean and of good substance. Yes they could be larger but they are by no means excessively small for a buck.
Body is of good length and substance, fairly good tail set. The tail could be thicker.
The eyes do appear to be a bit small to balance but not drastically so.
The coat is fairly good, a few scattered guard hairs.


I don't really know how to comment on the idea that the ears should curl backward at the tips. I've never seen it in another club's standard. Personally based on other club's standards I'd find that to be a fault, not a severe one but one up there with creases, wrinkles, and minor nicks. Also while I do agree the ears should be thin, if they are too thin they will get nicks and tears in them, there should be some balance between too thin and too thick, they should have enough substance to be resilient, but no so heavy that the weight pulls them down.

As for what color a blue recessive yellow should be I do have a thought on that. Both blue and yellow are self colors, so shouldn't the resulting animal be self? I'd imagine if you breed the soot out it would be very similar in shade to a champagne. Although doing that without introducing chocolate or pink eye dilute would be very challenging. But who doesn't love the impossible challenge.

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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Rhasputin on Wed May 09, 2012 12:39 pm

Thank you for your input Cindy. I'd like to discuss ears in more depth, so I think I'll start another thread about it soon. Happy
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Love2read on Wed May 30, 2012 2:04 pm

Here some updated pics I took of him in the lightbox last night:





He's slowly turning more of a creamy yellow. I just love the color! I hope it gets standardized soon!
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Re: Critique wanted!

Post by Love2read on Wed May 30, 2012 2:05 pm

BTW, he's not fat...I made the mistake of feeding all the mice shortly before deciding to take pics and ended up with lots of piggy bellies, lol!
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