Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

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Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by doganddisc on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

I'm really hoping all these issues can be cleared up before this transport that we're planning, but I have had another ASF come up with head tilt.

I feel like the slew of health issues I have experienced with these guys (mites and head tilt) are making me look like a horrible pet owner but my cages are absolutely spotless (bedding is changed every 4-5 days), my mice/rats are on good quality lab block, they all always have water- I just cannot for the life of me figure out why this is happening.

I have a really sweet argente pied ASF who has developed head tilt and pretty much deteriorated over the past 48 hours. I noticed yesterday that her tail was very boney- today she is extremely uncoordinated.

She has been on alfalfa pellet bedding for the past few weeks and was living with a buck who barbered her face but has since been moved because of that. She is living with my most laid back buck now (who I'm now worried will catch whatever she has).

She has been treated with diluted topical ivermectin twice now.

I will do everything I can to try to save her but I'm afraid it might be too late. I absolutely adore this girl and will be quite sad if she doesn't make it. Any help is appreciated. I can give any other information needed as well.

I also shot a video of her:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3665693593842

Thank you!

EDIT: It should not be heat related- the air conditioning has been on for the past two days and is has stayed a constant temperature in my home.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by thistlebrook on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:47 pm

Sorry to hear about all the trouble you are having. Have you used the diluted topical ivermectin before? Was it something you just made up or has it been sitting in a bottle already made? If so, did you shake it before use? It almost sounds like neurological damage from toxicity. Is she older? I wasn't able to view the video.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by doganddisc on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:52 pm

I have used the diluted topical ivermectin before- it has been sitting in a bottle already made for the past two weeks. The last time I used it was about a week ago. Today was my next day for treatment of everyone and I haven't used it on her yet. I've been shaking it before I squirt each of them.

I have no idea how old she is. I got her from Casey and I'm assuming she's young as she doesn't look full grown to me.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by kawmice on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:40 pm

I agree with Thistle. Sounds like a reaction to the ivetmection. I would definately toss that bottle and make a fresh batch. I do not use ivermectin due to its neurolgical side effects. But everyone else does and even though those side effects are exist, I have rarely heard of them ocuring. But it can happen. When I used it I kept it in a dark place and changed the bottle out every three days. I don't know what everyone else does though.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by doganddisc on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:51 pm

kawmice wrote:I agree with Thistle. Sounds like a reaction to the ivetmection. I would definately toss that bottle and make a fresh batch. I do not use ivermectin due to its neurolgical side effects. But everyone else does and even though those side effects are exist, I have rarely heard of them ocuring. But it can happen. When I used it I kept it in a dark place and changed the bottle out every three days. I don't know what everyone else does though.

Oh geez, okay. I'm going to do that now. Thank you kawmice. Are the side effects permanent? Oh no Sad Sad I really don't want to lose this girl!
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by Rhasputin on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:24 pm

I've never had any health problems with my ASFS. . .BUT, I did have some react negatively to ivermectin spray which was not diluted enough. Sad

I unfortunately have no insight on whether or not the effects will be permanent.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by doganddisc on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:31 pm

Rhasputin wrote:I've never had any health problems with my ASFS. . .BUT, I did have some react negatively to ivermectin spray which was not diluted enough.

What did the reaction look like? I'm so worried. I measured the dilution so carefully when I poured it out Sad I really don't think this poor thing is going to make it though. If she still looks horrible a day or two from now I will probably put her out of her misery. I don't think she's eating- she is very thin and her tail just keeps getting thinner and thinner. Geez I feel so awful Sad Sad

I mixed an extremely watered down solution of ivermectin today. Essentially 10 parts water and 1 part ivermectin. Maybe it will still help with the mites. I've also using the diatomaceous earth so I hope between the two of those this will help with the mite issue.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by kawmice on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:32 pm

The effects are not permanent, but It does depend on the specific animal and the severity of the reaction on the body. I would stop useing ivermectin on her completely. Stop all meds for at least a week on this girl if possible and after that start using a bird or reptile mite spray. I will get the exact name if the reptile spray I use - I think it is called de-flea. It works on mites, lice, ect.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by kawmice on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:36 pm

Oh boy- try to get her to eat something. Also try syring feeding her pedialyte and nutracal. Some effects are severe and some animals make it and some do not. If her condition continues to decline I would euthanize her unfortunately. Sad

ASF are considered exotic even to mice. I would use care with certain meds and topicals.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by doganddisc on Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:09 am

Perfect! I wasn't sure if Nutrical would be okay for her. I'll pick some up tomorrow and give it to her. Thank you!!
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by kawmice on Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:35 am

You are very welcome!! Happy
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by doganddisc on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:12 am

I woke up this morning to find that she had passed overnight. I found a baby Himi in the same condition and euthanized her. That'll be the last time I ever use Ivermectin. Sad Sad I feel absolutely horrible.


Last edited by doganddisc on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by kawmice on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:20 am

I am soooo sorry! Sad
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by LittleSniffs on Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:06 pm

doganddisc wrote:I woke up this morning to find that she had passed overnight. I found a baby Himi in the same condition and euthanized her. That'll be the last time I ever use Ivermectin. Sad Sad I feel absolutely horrible.

Aww I'm so sorry :-( You were just trying to do the right thing, so don't feel bad babe.

Weird how the other mouse got that way also. Hope you figure out what it could be so it don't happen again.
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by doganddisc on Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:16 am

I think it was a reaction to the ivermectin. Like an idiot, I went ahead and did treatment on the rest of the mice yesterday. I changed the solution dilution about halfway through.

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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by thistlebrook on Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:08 pm

Very sorry for your loss. I had a similar experience last year with my mice. I culled about a dozen that were affected. Sad
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Re: Head tilt again- this time in an ASF?

Post by kawmice on Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:29 pm

The bottle should be kept away from light and changed every three days.

I am so very sorry.
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