More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

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More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:49 pm

"Double brindle" is my personal, made-up term for a mouse which is both A^vy and Mo^br. A while ago, my first one, The Mouse in Question (TMIQ, pronounced "te-MICK"), was born, and there ensued great debate and many photos. Finally, with information from the breeder of her parents, m137b, and expert genetic opinions from Stina, it was decided that TMIQ is a double brindle.

I have just test-bred her to a black-based buck, Bluetrie, to see if I got both A^vy and Mo^br babies. This is what I have on Day 7:

Mother: TMIQ = A^vy/a C/* Fz/* Go/go Mo^br/mo^br S/s
Father: Bluetrie = */a c?/c? */s Spl/* (a descendant of WNT-bred mice, passed on to me without pedigree)

Here are the babies, all of whom have kinked or wavy whiskers and are thus x-brindles:




I am thinking the brownish-looking ones are A^vy, making them double brindles. The two with the white head spots seem to have a similar brownish-looking background, so they could be pied double brindles, as well. The ones on the far left and the far right appear to be plain old a/a Mo^br.


And BTW, if TMIQ's other c-locus is a dilute, some of these could also be splashed or tri.

What do you-all think?
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:13 pm

New pix, Day 10:



All now confirmed female.

Here's the belly of one of the head spot bubs:


The other one's belly is like it, but a different pattern.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Laigaie on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:03 am

Those two dark stripey ones are looking really good!
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:42 pm

Yeahhhh! But isn't their background supposed to be cream/light? It looks kind of brownish/orange.... Possible double brindles? Possible agouti?
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Laigaie on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:58 pm

Going to be hard to tell which are densely marked doubles and which are agouti. It doesn't help that Mobr seems to make colors go all crazy sometimes.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:50 pm

I didn't know Mo^br seems to make colors go all crazy sometimes. Tell me more!
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Laigaie on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:10 pm

The folks with Mobr over on FMB are admittedly not always fantastic about knowing genotypes of their mice, but the color/shading variation they were getting in individual litters that were supposed to be otherwise genetically identical was really intense. I don't have Mobr, or even understand how it works. The c-dilutions are more what I keep having to research. Doesn't Rhasputin have Mobrs? I feel like there was someone else here with them. But I think you're the only one I've seen with double-brindles (appropriately for the Empire), so you're kinda paving new paths here.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:37 pm

Stina has or has had x-brindles. She gave me my first one. Someone must have bred a double brindle some time in the past but probably didn't recognize it because they weren't looking for it. My Imperial Double Brindles are Intentional Imperial Double Brindles! TMIQ's brother, Macbeth, has a marvellous, bright orange. I want to breed her to him, next, now that I've proven with a test breeding that she is actually a double brindle. (Dunno what I'm going to do with all these babies. Gonna save them to see how they turn out. Lots of people on doganddisc's mouse train are looking for x-brindles.) I am particularly interested in the brownish ones, who are looking kind of umbrous, now, and kind of tannish/orangish around the armpits. They are--they are kind of the color of the diluted stripes on the two head-spotted x-brindles! Bluetrie could be A/a. I am waiting for some kind of help on his genotype from the breeder of his parents.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by kawmice on Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:51 pm

I love them! I live Mobr ! Lol

Stina does still have some- and nice ones at that. I used to have nice ee or ay x brindles from Holland a few years back. Had issues with my two girls though. Now I have a pregnant x brindle. Happy can't wait!
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:18 pm

I'm excited, too!
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:57 pm

NOW LET'S TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE OTHER ONES ARE.





These are the ones that look almost umbrous, their armpits and shoulders looking orangeish. I am wondering if they are c^ch/c^e diluted A^vy brindles. We know which in this litter are the x-brindles, but have not yet identified the A^vy brindles.

Does anyone see nose stripes?

Their mom, TMIQ, has one unidentified c-dilute. Their dad, Bluetrie, has two. Any ideas?

STINAAAA!!!!!!???????
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:24 pm

Sunshine pix, Day 14. Get ready for something unusual farther down!

First, the orangey/brown/dilute?/umbrous? ones:


Bellies:




Undercoats:





The black ones:



Bellies of the two with headspots:



Now, has anyone noticed that the insides of both the ears of the little black one with the very little pied line on its right waist are TAN COLORED????




And it's not the only one. One ear of the big, black x-brindle has a good deal of TAN in it!



I've never seen or heard of such a thing! Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This is my A^vy-Mo^br litter. Could this be A^vy orange showing through on Mo^br mice????

I am also wondering if the ones with the orange undercoats are A^vy, also.

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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by seafolly on Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:15 pm

To my untrained eye, it looks like there are some sooty RY's. <3 I don't know why I adore them but I do.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Laigaie on Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:48 pm

The only tan I see on that is on the ears. Is there more? Ginger ears are pretty normal for an at/* mouse.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Mrs. Beach on Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:46 pm

Yes, just inside the ears. Wow! I didn't know that! I'd just never seen that before. Thanks for explaining.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Laigaie on Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:53 pm

I'll check the ears on my mess of black tan hoppers and see if I can get one with the ginger ears to hold still for a photo for you. Might take me a few tries, though. They're in that silly jumpy stage.
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by [Dino] on Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:23 am

The tan in the ears are also a good way to differentiate between a black and a sepia mouse in a litter

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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

Post by Rhasputin on Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:27 am

I LOVE the head spot black brindle. . . Begging
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Re: More possible A^vy/* Mo^br/mo^br double brindles!

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