Attaining a temporary buck?

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Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by seafolly on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:41 pm

Here's a bizarre question for you!

I'd like to stay on the small scale of things so acquiring bucks is not particularly ideal. However, I'm not sure the use of a single buck is best. I understand inbreeding is okay, but I can't imagine constantly breeding the does back to him is a good idea. I wouldn't mind trying my hand at creating red which I understand involves fawn and chocolate to bring up Ay. That said I have RY and wonder how if I might be able to use them instead with one (fawn?) as opposed to buying both.

Anyway, to the question! Has anyone ever attained a buck for stud purposes only? I understand QT may be problematic in terms of eating up time but was curious if this is done in the mouse world.
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Re: Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by candycorn on Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:01 pm

I personally would not loan one out. Most people have enough trouble rehoming bucks that they would not want one to return. I think you will just have to adopt/buy one and use him as you see fit.
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Re: Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by tinyhartmouseries on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:40 pm

I have borrowed a doe (that I bred and adopted out) before, and the intent was to return her after the litter. Unfortunately there were complications and she did not get returned. Anyone letting a mouse out on loan just has to understand that things happen, etc. It's not an unheard of situation but all parties have to understand that the person housing the mouse is responsibly for health issues/treatment/euth.
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Re: Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by Laigaie on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:52 pm

Loaning out animals is dangerous for both parties, as quarantine is so long and it is not uncommon for animals not to make it out of quarantine despite being in good health initially.

Also, you have fawn (pink-eyed red) and want to breed it to chocolate to get red? Is the fawn RY or Ay? If your fawn is recessive yellow with pink eyes, breeding to chocolate won't change which gene you've got. Or is that not what you meant by saying you have RY?

Also-also, there's not really much wrong with breeding does back to the same buck for several generations. This is the basic linebreeding technique of the vast majority of European breeders. If one buck is the best, breed to him until you either get a better buck or he dies. If he's the best buck and he carries no negative recessives, you're golden. If he does have bad recessives, you need to know, and this will certainly tell you.
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Re: Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by seafolly on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:27 pm

That makes sense! I'd imagine there would have to be a firm bond of trust between both parties and the woman I'm thinking of is quite new to me so I doubt she'd be on board. I didn't ask, fearing I'd sound crazy. Happy Thanks for confirming, haha!

To be honest I have no idea what I have. I default to whatever's the most common around here which I think is e/e. I suppose all I could do then is breed to a very rich fawn and hope to emulate the Ay? I'm sure that's a pipe dream but worth thinking about.

Oh good! I wasn't sure. I thought a vet had told me it was okay "for a couple of generations" but she was vague and I don't know her background with genetics. He actually is the only buck I've seen since I found him last March...! Mice are scarce, at least the fancy varieties. Fortunately I love his eyes, ears, and colour. And he's a good mate. We'll find out soon I think - he's snoozing with his blue daughter now. I assume by bad recessives you mean health issues right? There was a runt with a kinked tail in the original pairing...I do hope that was a fluke. Anyway, I don't know if beige serves any colours well other than, well, beige.
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Re: Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by Laigaie on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:11 pm

By bad recessives I mean tons of things. It could be mice born without certain body parts or with genetic diseases or a continuing decrease in size or a propensity of tumors or all sorts of things. If he's not from a breeder line, you've no real way of knowing what he carries, and your vet's point about okay "for a couple of generations" would be true if he does carry something negative. You'll be in wait-and-see mode.

e/e is recessive yellow, yes. Pink-eyed is called fawn and black-eyed is called red, and whether you can get it as dark as the nice Ays (dominant yellows or lethal yellows) depends entirely on whether you can collect the modifiers. It'd be a long-term goal.

Also, if you've got e/e and beige, you can combine the two for black-eyed whites. It'd take several generations, since they're both recessive, but it's an option you hadn't mentioned knowing you have.
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Re: Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by Mrs. Beach on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:22 pm

I once borrowed a buck for stud. It worked very well.
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Re: Attaining a temporary buck?

Post by seafolly on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:55 am

Laigaie wrote:By bad recessives I mean tons of things. It could be mice born without certain body parts or with genetic diseases or a continuing decrease in size or a propensity of tumors or all sorts of things. If he's not from a breeder line, you've no real way of knowing what he carries, and your vet's point about okay "for a couple of generations" would be true if he does carry something negative. You'll be in wait-and-see mode.

e/e is recessive yellow, yes. Pink-eyed is called fawn and black-eyed is called red, and whether you can get it as dark as the nice Ays (dominant yellows or lethal yellows) depends entirely on whether you can collect the modifiers. It'd be a long-term goal.

Also, if you've got e/e and beige, you can combine the two for black-eyed whites. It'd take several generations, since they're both recessive, but it's an option you hadn't mentioned knowing you have.

My mind instantly wanders to the one runt I had in that litter. I think we're about to find out if that was just a coincidence or something more.

DOH. You did tell me about the black eyed white but on FMB I lost the thread I think (I've been searching back for all the tips and advice during the first litter in terms of what outcomes were possible). I would love to produce that. I hoped maybe with the blue cooling off the dad's warm cream I'd have something close in a baby or two. If this litter ends up being healthy I'll breed the pied RY daughter to dad. (or would it make a difference in genetic "closeness" if it were a brother?)
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