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Black Beauty's unusual litter

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tinyhartmouseries
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Post by Mrs. Beach Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:20 pm

Here's Black Beauty. She's ae/a C/* 75% chance of being B/b Fz/*
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-3007

Here's Bluetrie (BLUE-tree). His genotype is unknown, although he's definitely splashed. Anybody want to give me a guess?
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-3003
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-3004
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-3006
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-3002


They have had an unusal mix of babies:
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-3011

The one on the far left is PE!
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-3001

I would imagine them to be 100% black. Maybe 50% black. Out of 12 I've got 5 really dark ones, 3 medium ones, three light ones -- all BE -- and one PE light one! I'm figuring Black Beauty's carrying c. If Bluetrie is c^e/c^h (he's got a dark spot on his nose, so who knows), the PE could be c^h/c, but there would be more than just one! There should be three of them! Black Beauty's numbers do indicate that she lost or culled three. Maybe that would even it out.

My objective in breeding them was to work towards ae/ae tricolors with deep black black patches, like Roland's. I wonder if the medium ones are a/a and the really dark ones are ae/a.

Can somebody explain what's happening with this litter, please?

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Post by thistlebrook Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:42 pm

Can't explain what's happening (sorry lol) but what a very interesting litter! Hopefully someone can shed some light on the genetics.
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Post by WindyHill Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:43 pm

interesting litter!
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Post by lunalady Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:57 pm

Nice litter. Black beauty is beautiful!!!

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Post by Rhasputin Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:59 pm

I love bluetrie! Is it an homage to Otrie?
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Post by Mrs. Beach Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:02 pm

Yes! There's also a Browntrie, but Browntrie is going to Oklahoma soon. Remember the two tri boys you brought me from Elena? You said one looked blue. I thought the blue one looked normal and the other one looked brown. Those are Bluetrie and Browntrie. Blue tri and brown tri. Get it? "Bluetrie" sounds nicer and is easier to say than "blue tri".
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Post by Rhasputin Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:10 pm

Bluetrie, is definitely a blue tri, though he looks very different now-a-days!
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Post by bethmccallister Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:21 pm

I'm willing to bet your black is carrying blue and you have some blue babies in the mix. If there isn't any chocolate I might beg for a black.
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Post by Mrs. Beach Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:59 pm

Now there's a sensible suggestion! There are twelve of these little, unusual pink things, and I will need to cull soon. For my breeding goal I would keep just the darkest ones (and the darkest of the darkest ones would be ae/a, right?), but I am reluctant to cull the others without knowing what they are. Maybe I should save one medium and one light--though I don't want any white mice--and maybe the PE one, to see what it turns into. It is the largest bub in the litter. ...Or maybe I should just wait another day, or cull the smallest (always a sensible thing to do). Beth, you are welcome to a black. I should have some spares.
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Post by lunalady Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:18 pm

If u don't need to cull. Keep all of them. See what they all turn out to be. I will adopt one. I like pe. See how the big one turns out. Please! Robin

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Post by mouselover01 Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:14 am

So the daddy is form me! He is so handsome!

Maybe we can track down his lineage some more?

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Post by GypsyTails Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:28 am

If you don't know what you are getting in a litter, i.e. it's a test breeding, etc., then you should keep all who are not runty or obviously malformed until you know for sure. Do you have another nursing mama who could take a couple babies? If not, I would cull the smallest/weakest and go from there once they have fur. That's just me though! Wink

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Post by Mrs. Beach Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:05 pm

Geeze! [palm to forehead] Foster mom! I most assuredly do have other nursing mamas! Let me go downstairs and get this going! Thaaaaaank you, Gypsy!

mouselover01, yeah! Any luck contacting the breeder on this? Perhaps when this litter grows up I'll be able to give you some genetic info on him.

Lunalady, shall I put you down as the eventual adopter of the PE one (the largest one) (as breeder I get first refusal)?
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Post by Love2read Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:03 pm

Out of curiosity, what exactly is ae/a? Is that just a standard Black that carries Extreme Black?

I've only ever seen ae/ae or a/a and never ae/a. tongue
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Post by Mrs. Beach Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:57 pm

Update. Getting more unusual. Day 4:
Black Beauty's unusual litter BBB-12-4002

There are now:
5 dark
5 medium
2 light

but the PE bub is now a medium bub! (It is bottom mouse of the two on the far right, both pointing to the right.)

Plus the medium bubs are different shades of medium, which cays to me c-dilute. Black Beauty must be carrying a c-dilute and Bluetrie must be carrying two different c-dilutes. Aaaaand--I don't know if you can see it in this pic--the medium ones are not evenly pigmented. Bluetrie is Spl/* and if these babies are c-dilutes, I think they may be splashed! They may all be carrying s, too, which makes them perfect for breeding towards ae/ae beige tris for the Brindle Empire!

Someone want to explain the PE c-dilute to me? I know that c/c and c^h/c can make PE, but I think the color of c^h/c would be so light the PE bub would still look all pink at this point. Perhaps they are ruby.

Continuing to wait and watch.

This morning I fostered the PE medium bub and one light bub to Lara, whose babies are 14 days old, and 3 mediums and the other light to Sophisticated Lady, whose baby is now 18 days old. Thanks for making that suggestion, Gypsy! I am still aware that I am a new breeder!
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Post by WindyHill Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Very neat litter!
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Post by lunalady Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:33 pm

Mrs. Beach I will be glad to adopt the PE unless you want to keep it. I really want to see what comes of this litter. Robin

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Post by Mrs. Beach Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:21 pm

Thank you, Robin! I would rather rehome than cull.
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Post by bethmccallister Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:04 pm

The PE may also be the pink eye gene...if it's any color other then PEW then you'll know for sure.
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Post by bethmccallister Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:12 pm

I'm pretty sure ae(extreme black) is more dominant then a(black) so ae/a would phenomenologically be extreme black making it difficult to know whether the mouse is ae/ae or ae/a so I usually denote is as ae/* in my records.
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Post by Mrs. Beach Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:13 pm

Beth, what gets me about the PE bub is that if both parents are P/p and there are twelve bubs, then 25% of them, or three, ought to be PE, not just one. Same thing if the parents were */c^h and */c. 25% of the bubs would have PE. I am puzzled.

That is exciting that ae/a is phenotypically extreme black. But...Black Beauty, although she is really, really, really black, and I was told by her breeder that she is ae/a, has a few light guard hairs. I was told that extreme blacks don't have light guard hairs. So I thought that was the difference between ae/a and ae/ae. I wonder what other small differences there are. I mean, Black Beauty does look extreme black. I see what you mean.
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Post by Love2read Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:25 am

I was told that if there are ANY tan hairs than a black is not Extreme Black. Extreme Blacks aren't capable of producing tan hairs. It talks a bit more about it on Finnmouse.
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Post by Lycrisa Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:11 am

I have seen a few ae mice with clear guard hairs. Not actually tan, but clear. Is that what you mean?
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Post by doganddisc Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:15 am

I'm really interested in seeing what you end up with here. Fascinating!
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Post by Mrs. Beach Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:54 am

Well, we'll just have to wait until tomorrow morning and see!
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