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Himi/Siamese Babies!

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Post by doganddisc Sun May 20, 2012 9:30 am

Miss Poem gave birth to a litter of what looks to be about eight last night. For whatever reason, she decided to have the litter outside of the nest she spent hours building so they are in full view for me.

I was actually quite surprised this morning to see them though- I looked over the minute I woke up (all the mice are in my bedroom) and saw that she was sitting in the corner. I assumed that meant she hadn't had them yet. But when I walked over to her to the cages, I saw a bunch of little pink feet sticking out from under her!

So welcome to the world himi babies! This is my first intentional litter and I am quite excited! I adore the buck and I'm hoping to get a few that are a bit like him.

Himi/Siamese Babies! 166754_3479988031319_1019846655_33103327_1217085333_n


Last edited by doganddisc on Wed May 23, 2012 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by doganddisc Sun May 20, 2012 9:55 am

Newbie breeder question:

There is a dead bub outside on the outskirts of the little nest Poem has built for herself (in a very accessible spot). I strictly and fondly follow the "don't touch/don't bother until three days" rule suggested on TFM but this dead baby is really bothering me. Is it okay to leave it there/let mom dispose of it or should I reach in and remove it?

I do trust that she knows what she is doing. I'm just worried about any possible risk to the other babies.
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Post by kawmice Sun May 20, 2012 10:05 am

I would remove it. :-)

Also-I usually handle my pups from day one. Usually mice with known backgrounds from breeders are ok with you handling them. Of corse if you have a skiddish or fearful mom then don't.

I feel it is especially important for culling purposes to handle them from day one as well. The younger you cull, the better and easier it will be for both you and the mouse.

What I do refrain grim doing is cleaning the whole cage. If I have to I will clean the whole cage except for the bedding around and in the nest.
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Post by doganddisc Sun May 20, 2012 10:09 am

If you say day one is okay, I would definitely trust that. This is not a doe I would even be remotely worried about in terms of skittishness as she is one of the friendliest and most laid back does I own (Cindy did an amazing job with her!) but I also don't want to cause her unreasonable stress.

I cleaned her cage a few days before in preparation for this litter and gave her a lot of extra bedding, so I'm hoping I don't run into that problem!

We'll see how this goes. Thank you Kawmice Happy
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Post by kawmice Sun May 20, 2012 10:16 am

You are welcome! When I handle tje pups I place them in the same spot I took them out of. Mom may move them,but that's ok. Happy

Cindy's mice are great. Happy and good luck with the pups! Happy
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Post by doganddisc Sun May 20, 2012 10:21 am

Thank you Happy
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Post by Mrs. Beach Sun May 20, 2012 11:28 am

The Fun Mouse is dead wrong with don't touch/don't handle babies for three days. They tell me it's mainly because so many kids go to their forum, it's to protect the babies from kid-handling. It is perfectly all right and desirable to handle baby mice from Day 1.
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Post by doganddisc Sun May 20, 2012 11:42 am

Thank you for that info! I learned from them when I got a surprise litter from Pet Smart so I followed their directions perfectly and the litter turned out okay. I'm definitely willing to try something different though!

I held them all today- ten babies in total. Had absolutely no issue getting to them as Poem saw the mealworm in my hand and forgot all about the babies. I culled three with the flick method, which wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I got away with not having to cull any last time since only five babies were born.

I'm wondering if I was right on sexing them too! I still have two boys and five girls, I think. Thank you for all of your help guys. I'm really very grateful that I have everyone here to talk to about this. I was a little nervous for the first litter but this seems to be going well!
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Post by seafolly Sun May 20, 2012 1:23 pm

High five to a fellow newbie. Happy I've been posting excessively over at FMB about my own insecurities and new kid worries so you're not alone! You're doing better than I am already. I took the litter of 8 out last night and attempted to sex the boys to cull and just got freaked out with, "What if I'm culling girls? What if I leave boys behind?" I didn't expect them to be so wriggly. Wink

I too worried about the 3 day rule but, even with a skittish mouse like mine, if you take precautions like move her out of the room, rub your hands with litter, and replace everything exactly as it was, well, apparently it's all good!
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Post by doganddisc Sun May 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Seafolly, I know what you mean about the sexing! I was told to make three piles (male, female, unknown) and did just that. As soon as I finished, I saw they had all wriggled back into one big pile again so I had to start over- and by that point, I had lost count.

Glad to have another newbie around Happy
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Post by seafolly Sun May 20, 2012 2:07 pm

Haha I either have all the males right, or I have absolutely NO idea what I'm doing. Big smile If possible, try and sex them when they're sleepy. I did it last night and it was really frustrating. But this morning they were dopey and docile - much easier to photograph! We'll get the hang of this.
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Post by m137b Sun May 20, 2012 3:41 pm

doganddisc wrote:Seafolly, I know what you mean about the sexing! I was told to make three piles (male, female, unknown) and did just that. As soon as I finished, I saw they had all wriggled back into one big pile again so I had to start over- and by that point, I had lost count.

Glad to have another newbie around Happy

Bowls, lol, if you have a wiggly litter use 3 small bowls for your piles Big smile. Makes it easier.

I wouldn't worry about her being skittish, my does tend to be very easy going with their litters, I literally just reach into the bin, scoop the pups out, sort and cull then put them back, I don't distract momma with food or treats, hid her away when I'm working with the pups, or rub my hands in the litter. It helps to just relax, take your time and not worry about rushing.
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Post by lunalady Wed May 23, 2012 7:51 am

Your first planned litter. Planned parenthood, such a good thing. Congrats. Keep us posted.

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Post by doganddisc Wed May 23, 2012 3:53 pm

Fat babies update:

Himi/Siamese Babies! 554309_3497518429568_1019846655_33112986_93574659_n

They all look a lot better now that there are only four of them. And mom is gaining some weight- she got a little thin in the beginning!
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Post by Rhasputin Wed May 23, 2012 4:00 pm

Oh yeah! Look at that chunker on the top there! Big smile
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Post by doganddisc Wed May 23, 2012 4:03 pm

That's my boy!! Just like his dad! Happy
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Post by doganddisc Sun May 27, 2012 10:45 am

Baby update!

Himi/Siamese Babies! 538924_3516369580835_1019846655_33120956_1337347183_n
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Post by LittleSniffs Sun May 27, 2012 10:49 am

Awww soo cute :-)
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Post by doganddisc Mon May 28, 2012 11:45 am

They are at my favorite stage of growth right now so I took out the good camera (not my cell phone) and snapped some photos. Sorry this is so image heavy!!

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Does anyone have any input on variety? I know siamese, PEW, and himi are all a possibility with this breeding. I think it looks like I have two siamese and two pew/himi. The only rex/texel looks siamese.

Another thing, do the babies look satin to anyone? I've been puzzled over this- all of them except the rex/texel have a VERY shiny satin like coat. Neither of the parents are satin. Maybe they are carrying satin?
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Post by Laigaie Mon May 28, 2012 12:10 pm

Good luck figuring out the himis and the pews. I feel like some of them show points by weaning, and others wait until 8, 10, 12 weeks to actually point up. It also seems like all babes go through a shiny stage when their fur is just growing in, and then go back to simply being a healthy amount of glossy. By the time they're fully furred, you'll know which is which, since it shows so well on white and cream colors.
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Post by kawmice Mon May 28, 2012 12:25 pm

Adorable!
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Post by seafolly Mon May 28, 2012 1:32 pm

Great idea with the DSLR when they're still young! I've been using my cell. Shame. Sad That said I'm shooting a wedding in a few days so I've been a bit hands off with the camera.

I don't know what standard coats look like at that age, but I've found with satin (adults, and now babies) it's hard to get two photos to display the same coat colour. They shimmer and it's irritating for the sake of records. :p Also those thin hairs...when my RY baby is flat against the glass of the tank she looks bald. Rather, that was the case yesterday.
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Post by doganddisc Mon May 28, 2012 1:57 pm

I think it's just baby shininess, as mentioned before. There is no reason for them to be satin- but I was thrown off by how shiny they are!

Maggie, I'm planning on keeping everyone in this litter unless there is something I really don't want, so waiting for points won't be a problem Happy

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Post by doganddisc Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:36 am

I had better photos of these guys but they got deleted Sad

Now I just have pictures of "Artist".

Does he look himi or would I know if he was by now? I think he just looks like a PEW but when I hold him under a light I swear he is pointed.

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Post by thewesterngate Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:48 am

I might..miiight see a point there? He's PRECIOUS with that little snubbly snout. Big smile
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